Ever since Marshall Crenshaw proved himself a master of the power-pop rock 'n' roll song on his self-titled debut album in 1982, he's consistently been a source of melodic and persistently hummable rock tunes even during the musical eras when Madonna-like dance or screamy grunge predominated.
A native of Detroit, Crenshaw grew up in a time when acid-tripping bands were slowly changing the music from the "rock 'n' roll" of the Buddy Holly/Chuck Berry period to simply "rock" music. Even Crenshaw's first major professional credit paid homage to that era-he played John Lennon for over a year in the rock era's only tribute band to make it on Broadway, Beatlemania.
Crenshaw carved himself a strong following for his original material. He kicked off his career with a tremendous self-titled debut album, spawning the Top 40 hit: "Someday, Someway." As the '80s stretched on (and into the '90s), Crenshaw continued to write worthwhile music, including great songs like "Whenever You're on My Mind," "Blues Is King," and "Better Back Off." His songwriting abilities have been recognized by artists like Bette Midler and Freedy Johnston (who have covered Crenshaw's songs) and the Gin Blossoms (with whom Crenshaw wrote the hit single "Til I Hear It From You").
After the launch of his own musical career, Crenshaw also began extending his expertise and interests into several new media. Crenshaw made his film debut playing his hero Buddy Holly in the 1987 movie La Bamba. A few movie and television appearances later, Crenshaw wrote the book Hollywood Rock: A Guide to Rock 'n' Roll in the Movies (HarperPerennial) in 1994.
Earlier this year, Crenshaw released his seventh studio album entitled Miracle of Science (Razor & Tie, RT 2823-2) and has been making the rounds on the road once again. I spoke with Marshall on October 10th as he paused for breath between two New Jersey gigs-the October 8th show at Maxwell's in Hoboken and at the Tradewinds in Sea Bright on October 11th.
Mike: The new album, Miracle of Science, is terrific. I really love it.
Marshall: Thank you!
Mike: In the liner notes, you mention a couple of the studios that it was recorded-then it says "and at people's houses." So what does that mean?
Marshall: Well, it kind of means what it says. [laughs] I guess the first person's house I'm referring to is my own, 'cause I did do a lot of the record at home, in this little building behind my home where I have this gear set up. A couple of other moments on the record-there's a slide guitar, a dobro, on "The 'In' Crowd"-it's played by a guy named Greg Leisz. I sent an A-DAT tape out to him in California and he worked on it on his own at his house. So that's kind of what that's about.
Mike: That's pretty cool. It's neat in this high-tech world in which we live that you can do that kind of thing.
Marshall: Yeah, that's kind of where the idea of Miracle of Science comes from, the title. It's sort of a jocular way of describing how you can do these things.
Mike: It's interesting, you can take the title as a reference to all of today's high-tech stuff, but it also reminded me-especially with the packaging-of the high-tech looks of a past era. You know, in the '50s and '60s when everything was labeled "high-fidelity recording," and everybody thought "Wow, this is so high-tech!" But now looking back on it, it just seem kind of funny. The packaging of the CD reminds me of that, with the black-and-white look and the eye-numbing parallel lines.
Marshall: Well, I have to say that the packaging was solely the work of another person. I wish I could take credit for the way the record looks because I think it looks great. But the guy-his name was Stephan Sagmeister, he was the art director-I think took his cue from the title of the record and then acting on his impressions of what the title meant.
Mike: Are there any reasons that you had a small CD insert booklet?
Marshall: Again, you'd have to ask Stephan.
Mike: There wasn't any conceptual reason for it?
Marshall: I guess it's so you can see the disk. When the thing's sitting there in the store, if you see a shelf of those, it just grabs your eye immediately.
Mike: Oh, that's for sure.
Marshall: And that's what packaging is supposed to be about.
Mike: I'm just waiting for the day when they start putting out holographic CD covers...
Marshall: You know, a lot of the record is supposed to be trance-inducing.
Mike: Oh, yeah. You mentioned "The 'In' Crowd." You have a couple of covers [of other people's songs] on this album. "The 'In' Crowd" was the one that I was struck by because I always loved, I think, Petula Clark did a version of that one.
Marshall: [incredulously] She did?
Mike: I believe her's is the one I'm thinking of.
Marshall: Boy, I never heard that.
Mike: It was pretty peppy.
Marshall: Yeah, I missed that one. I just know it as an R&B tune-Dobie Gray is the guy who had the first hit with it. There was a great version of it by Ramsey Lewis that was also a hit in the '60s. I'd say it's a classic song, maybe a little dangerous for me to even try to do it...
Mike: I think even The Mamas and the Papas did a version of it.
Marshall: Yeah, I think so, too. It's one of those songs that back then there probably a hundred versions of it.
Mike: Today, though, it has-like I said about the Miracle of Science title and the CD's packaging-almost this sheen like it was once a hip kind of sound, lyrically, but today, it sounds hip in a tongue-in-cheek way.
Marshall: It slightly is, definitely. And another layer of irony to it is I'm singing "I'm in with the 'in' crowd," and you hear the guys doing the "hey, hey, hey" background-but it's all me. "I'm in with the 'in' crowd," but it's just this one guy in the dark in his little box. If you want to look for layers of meaning to it.
Mike: Yet another "miracle of science!"
Marshall: Something like that. But I do love the song, and the idea of the song just kind of occurred to me as I was driving in the car one day. It just sort of hit me all at once-I heard it in my head. "I'm in with the 'in' crowd," and I wanted to use mostly acoustic instruments on it. I got home and made a little demo of it to see if I could sing it or not-it turned out that I couldn't, but I just faked it...
Mike: [laughing] Well, it sounds good.
Marshall: Yeah, I think it came out great.
Mike: Definitely a nifty gem to have on the record. Tell me about the Grant Hart cover.
Marshall: Well, I heard the song on the radio, and I didn't know anything about the origin of the song. The version that I heard was by a guy called Robert Forster-from a band called The Go-Betweens-who I've also never heard. I really liked this record immediately. I thought it had great hooks and was strikingly well-written-there were very few words in the song, but the whole thing's very vivid. It just grabbed me. It's a song about being in a state of personal upheaval and transition and stuff-everybody knows what that's like. I just thought it was hip, that one line in there about "keeping the stove on at night so the mice don't freeze" is just a killer line, you know?
Mike: Oh, yeah!
Marshall: So I got home after hearing this song on the radio, and I called the radio station and asked about what it was. And the guy who answered the phone was a guy named Nic Harcourt. He was super-helpful, he told me it's Grant Hart from Husker Du who wrote it, and he kind of describes the formation and breakup of the band and blah blah blah-he told me the whole history of the song.
Mike: When you called up the radio station, were you like, "Hey, this is Marshall Crenshaw-what was that song you just played?"
Marshall: No, I didn't. I had met Nic, but I didn't tell him it was me. He just treated me as if I was a total stranger to him. He laid all the information out. He was very helpful. I thought that was cool.
Mike: That's definitely cool. I ask, since I work at a radio station, too, and we've had times where somebody has called up and have actually pretended to be someone that they're not.
Speaking of darker lyrics and so forth, the song "Laughter" jumped out at me. That's a pretty dark song...
Marshall: Yeah, it is...
Mike: ..with lyrics like "chained to my rocking chair, sometimes it's hard to bear the memory of the laughter we used to share." How did that come about?
Marshall: I was walking down the street in New York City one night. It was down in the lower East side where I used to live with my wife, and I passed this building that used to be a restaurant-it was all dark. I remembered that right after we had moved into the neighborhood, we went in there to have dinner and she ran into this friend that she had just met and they talked-I didn't know this person. Currently, this guy that she bumped into that night is very ill with AIDS, and a lot of our friends from back then are either sick with that disease or they're just gone. I don't get real specific in the lyrics about this-I didn't want to be heavy-handed or morbid about it, but it is about that time in our lives and looking back and remembering people who are gone.
Mike: The adjective I first thought of to describe it was "haunting"-that's what it sounds like, so you really get that across. Everybody knows that feeling.
Marshall: I've wanted to write a song about that for a long time just because it was a big thing in our lives, but I didn't want it to sound like it was written by a klutz. I don't like heavy-handed rock songs about serious issues, but I'm real happy with it-I like the song.
Mike: Moving to other musical things, you cowrote the song "Till I Hear It From You"-the Gin Blossoms' contribution to the Empire Records soundtrack. How did that collaboration come about?
Marshall: I heard about the Gin Blossoms about six or seven years ago when I was down staying in Nashville for a little while. I went out to hear this band called Will and the Bushmen. I was just standing there watching them and this woman came up to me and told me she was their manager. And then she said, "I also manage this other band out in Phoenix called the Gin Blossoms." She told me that a couple of the guys in the band were serious fans of mine, so I said, "Uh huh, that's nice. Great." She gave me their album-the album the Gin Blossoms put out themselves down in Arizona-and I still have it, there's a couple of early versions of, like, "Hey Jealousy" on this album-songs that got to be hits later on.
A little bit of time passed, and their A&M album came out-I bought it and really liked it. Eventually I heard from Jesse Valenzuela-one of the guitar players in the band-he called my booking agent and said he wanted to write a song with me. I got the word, and I thought about it for less than half a second and said "Yeah, great, let's do it!" So I called him, and we were both going to be at [music festival] South By Southwest that year down in Austin. This was the year before last. We worked on the song-he had already had started it, and he had the title. We worked on it for about 45 minutes and had it finished by then. He need a melody for the verse-the main melody for the song-so I just strummed the chords a little bit and, literally, what happened is I said "Hang on, I'll be right back." I went into the bathroom, and while I was in there it hit me-it just popped right into my head.
We spent the rest of the time strolling around Austin and shooting the breeze. Then two months later, the fucking song was all over the radio. It was amazing, you know? Instant hit. It was just a ton of fun for all of us.
Mike: Was that the only song you worked on with them? Are there any other songs that might come out of this in the future?
Marshall: You know, we just did that one thing, but we sort of talked about maybe doing more. I guess we'll see.
Mike: You mentioned going out and buying the Gin Blossoms record and not really knowing the Grant Hart thing, but when you're going to kick back and listen to other people's music, what bands or artists do you tend to listen to?
Marshall: Let's see... I did this theme song for this sitcom that's on right now...
Mike: Yeah, Men Behaving Badly, right?
Marshall: Yeah. Two or three weeks ago-or was it four weeks ago?--at the recording session, we were just standing around talking and I heard a couple of the guys talking about seeing Beck on the David Letterman show. It turns out everybody in the room had bought the Beck album and really liked it, so that's a current favorite record of mine that's out right now. He's a super-bright guy, a great sense of humor, and a real music lover. He's great, I like him.
Mike: And a great appearance on Letterman, too!
Marshall: [chuckling] That was cool. I also liked the last Radiohead album, I think they're fantastic-a great guitar band. Last year, I really liked the P.J. Harvey album, To Bring You My Love.
And then the other guy I really like these days consistently is Tom Petty. I've become a huge fan of his ever since Full Moon Fever. I think he's better now than he ever had been. I always kind of liked him. In the '80s, he always had this persona as an angry young man, and now he has this other persona as a bemused adult. I think he's so much better now. And Mike Campbell, too...
I really think rock music is in a really healthy state right now. Ever since Nirvana...
Mike: It seems like things generally swing back and forth between a pop-dance kind of phase and then more or a guitar-rock phase, and ever since Nirvana blew everything out of the water when they first came out, we've been on this similar phase. Do you think that things are still going strong, or do you think that that's changing?
Marshall: Here's the thing-I like pop-dance music, too. I obviously don't make any of it myself. I always try to keep my ears open and my mind open and I always know what's on the radio. I don't hide away from it. I think people did make a mistake four or five years ago, when they proclaimed the death of guitar rock. The thing is, people really like that kind of music. They just do, millions of people. All you've got to do is play some of it for 'em. Maybe four or five years ago, there wasn't much of it on the radio, but that doesn't reflect everyone's taste.
My musical taste is wide-ranging. I have to say that I formed that type of an outlook when I was in my teens in the late '60s listening to FM rock radio. The fact that I love Bob Wills and a hundred fifty other things is because I used to listen to rock radio and they would play jazz and blues along with all the rock music. My listening habits still go all over the map.
Mike: Speaking of guitar stuff, it seems that your album progression over the years has gotten slowly but steadily more heavy-it seems like the albums your put out in recent years-the guitars have sounded a little chunkier than they did in the beginning. Has that been an intentional thing?
Marshall: Well...intentional? Hmm...
Mike: You know, on a lot of your albums there have been comparisons to late '50s/early '60s pop-rock stuff...
Marshall: When I made my first couple of albums, I was just really hung up on stuff like The Bobby Fuller Four, and Buddy Holly records and '50s rock. You know, Gene Vincent. That stuff is always in my head, and I'll always love that kind of music. Before I hit onto that phase, over the years I've gathered up a lot of different influences and certain of them surface at different times. One of my favorite albums when I was in high school was this album called Emergency by the Tony Williams Lifetime, which was this sort of bombastic jazz-rock stuff. One of my favorite albums during my acid-tripping years was the second album by the Soft Machine. And I saw Jimmy Hendrix when I was fourteen years old with the MC5 opening, and I've gone through a lot of phases in my life. The bottom line for me is Buddy Holly and The Everly Brothers, and then early Beatles. I have a real strong feeling for that but there's just so much other stuff that I've delved into over the years...
Mike: With those as your influences, it must have been amazing for you to actually play Buddy Holly in [the movie] La Bamba. That must've been kind of a dream come true. You know, to represent Buddy Holly for a whole new generation which may not be real familiar with the music, and might go on to listen to it.
Marshall: Yeah, he was sort of-I don't want to say "forgotten," but it does seem like ever since the Gary Busey movie [The Buddy Holly Story] came out there was an explosion of interest in him. You have to give Paul McCartney and Linda Ronstadt credit for that. Maybe when I came along it sort of accelerated it a slight bit, what with comparisons that were made between me and him. Which is fine by me, you know? They're beautiful records, they're timeless and gorgeous.
Mike: It's like someone who once said back in my high school, "I hate Shakespeare, he's so full of cliches!" That kind of thing happens in music, where people like Buddy Holly and The Beatles get imitated so often, that there's this thick, musical geological layer over their stuff. When people hear something that sounds like them, they just think of these other artists who have tried to sound similar-they don't actually hear the roots of where this stuff came from.
Marshall: What I love about Buddy Holly records-although he had his numerous influences-they sound like they came from a very, very specific place. I hear those records and I just see the southwest in my head. I just see that wide open space that's out there. Those vast horizons and so forth-that music just has so much of that atmosphere to it.
And the other thing is, they're beautifully recorded. I went out and visited [Buddy Holly producer] Norman Petty's studio a couple of years ago-just before Mrs. Petty died. And I saw the gear that they made the stuff on, and he was very into getting really the finest equipment that was available at that time. All those beautiful old Ampex and Altec components from back then which still sound great. People now lust after that stuff to make records with. I saw the microphone that Buddy Holly used. Norman Petty had a real sense of going after a quality kind of sound.
Mike: When you went out there and saw that stuff, did you feel more like on an intellectual level-like, "Oh, this is the equipment that he used" and how he made the sound-or did you get a sense of the more emotional aspect of, like "Wow, this is the stuff!"?
Marshall: All of the above! It was deep, because I was standing in the room where the whole thing happened-I saw the ten-cent Coke machine where they used to buy Cokes out of. Everything that they had back then and used was in that room. There was this little apartment in the back that hasn't been redecorated since it was first built. Lubbock [Texas] and Clovis [New Mexico, where the studio was located] are about eighty to a hundred miles apart, so they'd go out there and stay out there in that room. They'd stay and record, you know? Anyway, it was cool.
Mike: You not only have done stage, screen, and the music world, but you've done the book Hollywood Rock. You told me after the book had just come out that that was a one-time deal with you, but do you know if there's going to be another edition of that?
Marshall: No, I don't. I wouldn't mind if there was, so we could correct some of the screw-ups in there, but I haven't heard anything about it.
Mike: I was actually thinking more that since the book came out in '94, there's been so many new movies. Obviously, Hollywood marches on and the fascination with music is always there. Have you had a chance to see That Thing You Do! yet?
Marshall: No, I haven't, but I'm going to try and see it. There's this other one called Grace of My Heart, but everybody tells me it's a really bad movie so I don't think I'll go to see that. I did see another movie called Big Night, which I recommend to everybody-that was killer!
Mike: That was set in New Jersey.
Marshall: [laughs] Yeah, it is.
Mike: Speaking of movies IN Jersey, I have to ask. Tell me about that soundbite that kicks off the new album. It says something about a dressing room...
Marshall: ...in the Jungle Hut in Passaic, New Jersey. I only hope it was a real place, I'd love to know if it ever really existed.
Mike: Is that from a movie?
Marshall: It's from a really obscure movie called Bela Lugosi Meets a Brooklyn Gorilla, also released under another title, I think The Kids From Brooklyn or something like that-which makes no sense. It stars Bela Lugosi, of course. Eventually we all know he ended up working in Ed Wood, Jr., movies. This is slightly before that-he's still on the downward arc, he's just on his way to the Ed Wood, Jr., level.
The other stars of the movies are this comedy team called Sammy Petrillo and Duke Mitchell. And the thing about these guys is they do Martin and Lewis' act-they're the fake Martin and Lewis. Sammy Petrillo kind of looks like Jerry Lewis.
Mike: They're just acting like Martin and Lewis?
Marshall: Yeah, he does the whole thing. He does all of Lewis' schtick, you know, like "Hey, lady!" and all of that stuff, and talks in that voice. But he's bad, he's not funny-just merely extremely annoying.
So I was watching this movie over at my brother's house on Thanksgiving, and we were just in awe of it 'cause it was just crap and everybody in it was an idiot. [laughs] The whole thing takes place in the jungle-Sammy Petrillo and Duke Mitchell are trapped in the jungle. I don't know how they get there, I forget. Then at the end-it turns out it was all a dream, so you hear that "Come on, come on, let's go! We're on right now!" and whatever. So this light bulb appeared over my head and I decided to use it on the album.
Mike: [laughing] That sounds like a classic, low-budget "we don't know how to end this movie" thing.
Marshall: [laughing] Absolutely! It shows them at the end doing their act in this nightclub. And it's a beautiful looking nightclub, so if that was the Jungle Hut in Passaic, New Jersey, then it's Passaic's loss that it's not there anymore.
Mike: Speaking of movies, are you done with your acting phase, or is it something that's an ongoing thing with you?
Marshall: You know, I just get phone calls our of left field. I still get weird offers-not weird, but unexpected things, let's say. You should never say never. I've done a lot of things that I never could have guessed in advance that I would do.
Mike: So if you get the right phone at the right time, then there you go.
Marshall: Yeah.
Mike: I remember Joe Strummer after he was in the movie Mystery Train...
Marshall: Great! I love that movie!
Mike: Yeah, excellent film! He said after somebody asked him if he was going to stick to music after that, and he said that he would do a movie every time Bruce Willis cuts an album.
Marshall: [laughs] Really. Well, he was great in that movie. I don't know if he was trying to suggest that he didn't enjoy himself and didn't want to do it again. I really like the atmosphere on a film set. I think it's a fun place to be. I hope I get to do more. It's a great hang, and there's always-the few times that I've been on a film set-this super creative kind of atmosphere. It's fun. There's always this feeling of "let's put on a show!"
Mike: Compared to being in a recording studio, isn't there a lot of sitting around and waiting on a movie set?
Marshall: Yeah, absolutely. I guess maybe the first time you do it, it's fun. If you do it all the time, you can probably get a little cranky, I guess, just waiting. I've only done two movies and one television show, so that's not much. It's still fun for me.
Mike: Hasn't lost its glitter and luster for you?
Marshall: No, it's cool, and the food's always really good.
Mike: [laughing] Well, that's always a good reason.
Now, you're on tour currently. What's coming up for you?
Marshall: By the end of October, we're going to be down in Atlanta. Then we take a little break for five or six days, then we go out to Boulder and the northwest, and then down to Texas. We'll be done by the end of November, and then in December we're going to come back and play the Bottom Line or maybe Tramps [in New York City]. We're going do another northeast run during December.
Mike: And then are you taking some time off, or are you going to be heading back into a studio?
Marshall: I don't think we're going to be doing any shows in January or February. I'm going to try not to, just because it's dangerous to go on the road during those times. A couple years ago, I went out on tour during January and we were slipping and sliding all over the highway and really had some close calls. So I'm going to try to lay low.
Mike: Tour the tropics at that time.
Marshall: [laughs] Yeah, yeah... But I don't have any plans that I can divulge right now.
Mike: Well, once again, I wanted to tell you, it's just a great CD. I really love it, especially "What Do You Dream Of?" It's just such an awesome tune.
Marshall: Thank you. It's going out as the next track for radio, and "Starless Summer Sky" did great at [Adult Album Alternative radio stations]--it was top ten, top fifteen in all the trades at triple A, so we were happy about that. We figured that the thing we should try for was a hit at triple A radio, and we got that, so were all glad about that.
Mike: Well, thanks very much for talking with us!
Marshall: All right!
This interview originally appeared in
neo
the e-zine of modern life...or the lack thereof
October 10, 1996